Clementine, you grief and anger are understandable and we all share it. But you're allowing it to bubble out of you as hate and vilification.
Your "research" is one-dimensional, inflammatory, polarizing and frames incredibly complex historical conflicts as black and white with zero context. This will not solve the problem.
Look, I know speaking from anger feels good, but it just perpetuates suffering. And I'm sick of all of this - the killing and atrocities, on both sides, since October 7th, literally, physically ill from it. My heart is breaking. We need peace - the entire region needs PEACE. This speech of yours, that offers no solutions, no calls for peace - just calls for more fighting, is not helpful.
There is a fire of madness and hatred raging in the Middle East and you, Dear Clementine, are just more gasoline.
The fact you say you’re “sick of all of this, the killing and atrocities on both sides since Oct 7” - as if this started on Oct 7 - says everything I need to know about where you stand on Israel’s repeated crimes. Frankly, I couldn’t give a fuck if you think this is unhelpful when it’s clear you think Israel is entitled to act with impunity. Take your handwringing and “it’s incredibly complex” elsewhere. It isn’t complex at all, it’s a 75 year history of pretty clear cut abuse and iron fisted oppression.
Leah - do you have over 4,000 reasons why a child in Palestine should be killed? I believe there is no reason a child should be killed.
You don’t seem to be able to talk about the reality of what is actually happening, just your opinion. Clementine has written facts here, which you have ignored.
Did you ever hear about the Avivim school bus bombing? In this atrocity, Palestinian militants fired 2 Rocket Grenades into a school bus that was taking Israeli primary school kids to school. 9 little children were killed and 25 were maimed. What would be your response to this?
Before you tell me he’s biased, Pappe is a formerly Israeli professor of history. Formerly Israeli because he didn’t want any part of what Israel does to the Palestinians, and renounced his citizenship.
This movie has recently been made by 2 American Jewish women.
That includes giving Hamas notice of where they will be which risks IDF lives.
Do you know which side has indiscriminately launched rockets at civilian populations (not military targets) without warning populations to evacuate in advance? Hamas.
Hamas has launched 9,000 rockets into Israel since Oct 7. Why aren’t they spending money to help their citizens instead of buying more rockets to store in classrooms and under hospitals?
You have quite a lot of misinformation, but I’m not sure arguing about the facts will help. As you said, you are pretty uninformed on the issue. You still lack an informed understanding. What you left out is far more informative.
If you had a robust understanding, you’d know that.
Did you know that many of the people murdered by Hamas in the kibbutzim were activists that had spent their lives working to help Palestinians? Did you know they were driving Gazans into Israel for cancer treatment? Did you know that Israelis were forced to evacuate Gaza to give it to the Palestinians and that it was beautiful and full of state of the art organic farming? Did you know that Israel gives fuel, food, appliances, etc to Gazans to try to improve things for them, but that Hamas takes it all for weapons? Did you know that Israel gave Gaza to the Palestinians because they want to have peace and prosperity for both Israelis and Palestinians? Did you know they destroyed all the farming within minutes of taking control? Did you know that Israel has offered a two state solution many times?
Did you see the March for Israel and how it was peaceful and the crowd sang songs of peace? That is who Jews are. Israel did not want to send all their 18 and 19 year old sons and daughters into Gaza. Did you know that Gazans were crossing into Israel to work in an effort to improve the relationship? Did you know that those very people
It’s not an apartheid when 20% of Israelis are Arabs with all the rights of Jews. They hold high office including the Supreme Court. Israelis live peacefully with Arab Israelis. It’s not a genocide when the population is rapidly increasing. That’s not what a genocide looks like. Israel could flatten Gaza in a moment and not risk the life of a single soldier. They have always had that ability. Trying to get civilians out of the way while you hunt the terrorists that attacked you, the terrorists hiding under hospitals and using civilians as shields, is what any nation would do.
You say “From the river to the sea…” So you want Israel erased from existence? You want to rid the world of the *only* country in the world that has a Jewish majority? Where do you expect them to go? This is the tiny safe haven the UN created for Jews. And it is the Jewish ancestral homeland.
So, what’s your plan?
The fact is, if Israel laid down its arms right now, there’d be a second Holocaust. If Hamas laid down its arms, there’d be a two state solution.
I want Hamas destroyed *because* I care about Palestinian lives *and* Jewish lives. I have prayed for the Palestinian children for decades. Don’t tell me what I care about. But Hamas are terrorists. It will cost lives to rid the world of Hamas and that is tragic. Not ridding the world of Hamas will cost even more lives. Such is the nature of terrorism.
If you have a better idea, I think we’d all love to hear it.
I agree Clementine. Israelis are colonists, they have seized someone else's land by force of arms, in much the same way that many European Powers siezed other countries, displaced the people and stole their land. In fact the US was founded in this manner, but it doesn't make it right. In fact Australia too was founded in this way, justified in law by the legal fiction of 'Terra nullius ', ie that it was nobody's land, or empty land.
Please do yourself a favour and read a book so that you can stop starting the story of this conflict with the atrocities of the 7th of October. Hamas didn’t just wake up one morning and decided that they’d like to commit war crimes just for fun.
These are ALL the standard issue ADL talking points disseminated to their database to try and make a simple proposition complicated.
I’d much rather listen to Norman Finkelstein, a leading Political Scientist with 4 decades of experience in this field. Not that it should matter, but just so that I can head off your predictable cries of bias and antisemitism, his parents are holocaust survivors. All other family members on either side were murdered by the Nazis.
Here he is, being interviewed on your poster boy, Ben Shapiro’s platform, by Candace Owens, less than 24 hours ago.
If nothing else, just watch the first 5 minutes. Shame on you.
Do you believe no war is just, then? We should have just let the Nazis take over the world? Because children die in all wars. All the more when they aren’t evacuated so they can be used as shields by terrorists.
If you are concerned about babies and not just Palastinian babies, surely you must be protesting for the release of babies and children held by Hamas. And you must realize that it is problematic to take the side of those who put babies in ovens and set them on fire in front of their parents on Oct 7.
I will not ever agree that children are a morally defensible collateral damage in violence, war or genocide (which is what this is). The fact you can morally justify it in your mind disgusts me. The stories about babies being put in ovens is unproven (and disgraceful, given its graphic horror) propaganda. Do you know who did put a child into an oven though? A Zionist militia, in the massacre of the Palestinian village of Tantura.
Of course I want the hostages released safely, and to be returned to their families *especially* the children. How do you think carpet bombing the area where they’re being held is protecting them?
Honestly, you need to go away and reflect deeply on your disregard for Palestinian lives. And history.
The British Empire took over half the world, and other European countries took over most of the remainder. Russia and China though resisted successfully!
Thank you Clementine, this is a great speech which also educated me even more about the issue.
I was at the rally in Adelaide the other weekend, great to see so many people there standing up for the human rights of Palestinian people.
The Israeli Government is an elected government of a country and should be held accountable to the international laws it has broken. As we would expect from another country.
I one hundred percent support your post., every word of it. There is so much silence, double talk, denial and lies in fact, out there. Not only in regard to Palestine, but also First Nations P,eople, the homeless, and other disadvantaged groups.
Sure there are details with every historical event, but the basic truth is that people pushed themselves into the borders- and even literal HOMES- of people who were already living there. Doesn't get much more black and white than that.
Well written. I just don’t understand how the “antisemite” card can be dropped on you so blatantly, and why this vicious idiot at the AJA goes after anyone with a pulse (audience) who dares criticise Israel. FFS. I just hope people are waking up to this blatant BS - https://www.facebook.com/share/p/YadQnz96vnNBJfjD/?mibextid=WC7FNe
South Africa has launched a case at the UN's international court of justice accusing Israel of genocide. Israel has responded by (deep sigh) accusing South Africa of "blood libel".
Blood libel, for those who don't know, refers to the way medieval Europeans would falsely accuse Jews of murdering Christians in blood sacrifices in order to justify persecuting them. Which is to say, Israel has responded to South Africa's accusations by accusing South Africa of anti-semitism.
False accusations of anti-semitism are all Israel and its defenders have left. It's the only tool left in their toolbox. Once you've exhausted the "But Hamas!" and "But October 7!" excuses they make for Israel's deliberate butchery of civilians via airstrikes and siege warfare, false accusations of hating Jews is all that remains.
And it's so sick, because it exploits a healthy impulse in those of us who oppose racism and genocide, and does so *in order to defend racist acts of genocide*. It causes people who care deeply about human rights to take a step back and say "Hold on, am I guilty of embodying the same hateful prejudices which led to the Holocaust?" and shuts us down and shuts us up, even as Israel rolls out its own holocaust against Palestinians.
It exploits a noble, healthy inclination we cultivate in ourselves in good faith in order to support the horrific genocidal nightmare in Gaza in entirely bad faith. It exploits our good nature to advance a profoundly evil cause. It's despicable. It's depraved.
But fewer and fewer people are buying it. There's only so many times the boy can falsely cry wolf before the villagers stop running to his defense. Hopefully this desensitization that Israel and its apologists have created doesn't have dark consequences in the future. It's just one more ugly thing they have birthed into the world that the rest of us will have to bring consciousness to.
Predictably a) Obfuscating the whole Jewish faith with pro-Israeli State Policy - for false accusations of antisemitism and b) Obfuscating a genuine concern for human rights and indiscriminate murder with "pro-Hamas". I DEPLORE 7 Oct as I do Israel's current actions, and continued murder is not going to destroy Hamas. Show some humanity.
South Africa - let's agree to differ - noting ANY other country could refer Israel to the ICJ for genocide based on multiple opinions.
The actual point of Catilin's post is false accusations of antisemitism. So remove the first two lines of her statement to keep yourself happy, and you're left with Israel's response to anyone who would have raised that claim or others similar - patently untrue.
Other point you haven't addressed - you continue to conflate those who call for a humanitarian ceasefire with "Hamas Supporters".
So in addition to pro-Palestinian HUMAN rights supporters (as I've said above NOT Pro-Hamas) I suppose that 153 countries of the United Nations voting for a Ceasefire v 10 voting against (including Israel, US) are Hamas supporters completely wrong? Including 30 countries who switched their previous abstention to a Yes Ceasefire vote on 12 Dec.
But of course rubbishing and discrediting the UN is official Israeli Government policy, taken up locally here by pro-Israeli lobby groups as per my other thread.
Let's use common sense then re. the UN (parking from a moment your assertion that of the 194 countries "a vast majority" are run by dictators... ): 153 countries - voting YES for a ceasefire are they all wrong Hamas-supporting dictatorships? (noting only 98 of them would have needed to vote YES to pass the resolution - so let's assume 98 aren't Hamas supporting dictatorships for a minute).
Forgetting the semantics of condemning people by name (which by the way I agree should be done), an actual ceasefire to stop the killing is more important than offending someone.
Likud’s 1977 founding document reveals its position that:
… between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
Of course, this was written in 1977 – but critics of Hamas don’t afford it this concession vis-a-vis its 1988 charter. While this Likud statement doesn’t possess the racist sentiments of the Hamas charter, the practical implications denying the possibility of two states co-existing are more or less the same.
Lest we think that the Likud’s 1977 position is anachronistic, its 1999 electoral platform reiterates that:
The Jordan river will be the permanent eastern border of the State of Israel.
Jerusalem is the eternal, united capital of the State of Israel and only of Israel. The government will flatly reject Palestinian proposals to divide Jerusalem.
The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river.
This platform has never been rescinded. Current Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu was also exposed in a 2001 video bragging that he “stopped the Oslo Accords” after receiving US guarantees that Israel would not be required to withdraw from “specified military locations” – chosen by himself, including the whole of the Jordan Valley/eastern border of the West Bank – in exchange for signing the 1997 Hebron Agreement.
Predictably categorising any support of the Palestinian position as "hate speech" vs. what it actually is - pro-humanity. October 7th was appalling. As is Israel's actions from 7th onwards, and prior to 7th over decades.
The right to protest human rights in a country other than Israel whose Government is supporting this is not a "monstrous disease" - it's a human necessity. Ridiculous rhetoric.
Your statement is as if no mistreatment or unfairness (documented by multiple independent agencies) happened prior to October 7th (which I agree was horrific and illegal and those participating need to be tried by the ICC - as do key members of the Israeli Government and military).
Hi Clementine, I ve emailed you twice and am still not added to the bedties content on Instagram. I'm ruthjadruc I also didn't receive tha hat and gift packs that were going our in August.
Clementine, you grief and anger are understandable and we all share it. But you're allowing it to bubble out of you as hate and vilification.
Your "research" is one-dimensional, inflammatory, polarizing and frames incredibly complex historical conflicts as black and white with zero context. This will not solve the problem.
Look, I know speaking from anger feels good, but it just perpetuates suffering. And I'm sick of all of this - the killing and atrocities, on both sides, since October 7th, literally, physically ill from it. My heart is breaking. We need peace - the entire region needs PEACE. This speech of yours, that offers no solutions, no calls for peace - just calls for more fighting, is not helpful.
There is a fire of madness and hatred raging in the Middle East and you, Dear Clementine, are just more gasoline.
The fact you say you’re “sick of all of this, the killing and atrocities on both sides since Oct 7” - as if this started on Oct 7 - says everything I need to know about where you stand on Israel’s repeated crimes. Frankly, I couldn’t give a fuck if you think this is unhelpful when it’s clear you think Israel is entitled to act with impunity. Take your handwringing and “it’s incredibly complex” elsewhere. It isn’t complex at all, it’s a 75 year history of pretty clear cut abuse and iron fisted oppression.
You've missed my point:
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/how-hateful-rhetoric-connects-to-real-world-violence/
Oh to have the confidence of a jumped up shiksa goysplaining Israeli history to Jews!
What would be your plane to bring peace? What would you see as being a Just outcome?
Leah - do you have over 4,000 reasons why a child in Palestine should be killed? I believe there is no reason a child should be killed.
You don’t seem to be able to talk about the reality of what is actually happening, just your opinion. Clementine has written facts here, which you have ignored.
Did you ever hear about the Avivim school bus bombing? In this atrocity, Palestinian militants fired 2 Rocket Grenades into a school bus that was taking Israeli primary school kids to school. 9 little children were killed and 25 were maimed. What would be your response to this?
What exactly in the transcript did you read as hate and vilification?
Please read this:
https://www.palestinechronicle.com/my-israeli-friends-this-is-why-i-support-palestinians-ilan-pappe/
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/11/5/why-israel-wants-to-erase-context-and-history-in-the-war-on-gaza
Before you tell me he’s biased, Pappe is a formerly Israeli professor of history. Formerly Israeli because he didn’t want any part of what Israel does to the Palestinians, and renounced his citizenship.
This movie has recently been made by 2 American Jewish women.
https://amp.theguardian.com/film/2023/nov/12/israelism-documentary-american-jewish-israel-palestine-conflict
Marion Ingram is an 87 year old holocaust survivor and published author.
https://youtu.be/oMwzYPxJETg?si=ZwMTBk60kdgLMEQA
Omer Bertov is an Israeli American who is a professor of Holocaust studies at Brown University. He served as a soldier in the IDF in the 1970s.
https://youtu.be/4mZMkNJYr-0?si=TgYXVxAZBlwI2EWf
I hope you find these articles and clips sufficiently multi dimensional.
That includes giving Hamas notice of where they will be which risks IDF lives.
Do you know which side has indiscriminately launched rockets at civilian populations (not military targets) without warning populations to evacuate in advance? Hamas.
Hamas has launched 9,000 rockets into Israel since Oct 7. Why aren’t they spending money to help their citizens instead of buying more rockets to store in classrooms and under hospitals?
You have quite a lot of misinformation, but I’m not sure arguing about the facts will help. As you said, you are pretty uninformed on the issue. You still lack an informed understanding. What you left out is far more informative.
If you had a robust understanding, you’d know that.
Did you know that many of the people murdered by Hamas in the kibbutzim were activists that had spent their lives working to help Palestinians? Did you know they were driving Gazans into Israel for cancer treatment? Did you know that Israelis were forced to evacuate Gaza to give it to the Palestinians and that it was beautiful and full of state of the art organic farming? Did you know that Israel gives fuel, food, appliances, etc to Gazans to try to improve things for them, but that Hamas takes it all for weapons? Did you know that Israel gave Gaza to the Palestinians because they want to have peace and prosperity for both Israelis and Palestinians? Did you know they destroyed all the farming within minutes of taking control? Did you know that Israel has offered a two state solution many times?
Did you see the March for Israel and how it was peaceful and the crowd sang songs of peace? That is who Jews are. Israel did not want to send all their 18 and 19 year old sons and daughters into Gaza. Did you know that Gazans were crossing into Israel to work in an effort to improve the relationship? Did you know that those very people
It’s not an apartheid when 20% of Israelis are Arabs with all the rights of Jews. They hold high office including the Supreme Court. Israelis live peacefully with Arab Israelis. It’s not a genocide when the population is rapidly increasing. That’s not what a genocide looks like. Israel could flatten Gaza in a moment and not risk the life of a single soldier. They have always had that ability. Trying to get civilians out of the way while you hunt the terrorists that attacked you, the terrorists hiding under hospitals and using civilians as shields, is what any nation would do.
You say “From the river to the sea…” So you want Israel erased from existence? You want to rid the world of the *only* country in the world that has a Jewish majority? Where do you expect them to go? This is the tiny safe haven the UN created for Jews. And it is the Jewish ancestral homeland.
So, what’s your plan?
The fact is, if Israel laid down its arms right now, there’d be a second Holocaust. If Hamas laid down its arms, there’d be a two state solution.
I want Hamas destroyed *because* I care about Palestinian lives *and* Jewish lives. I have prayed for the Palestinian children for decades. Don’t tell me what I care about. But Hamas are terrorists. It will cost lives to rid the world of Hamas and that is tragic. Not ridding the world of Hamas will cost even more lives. Such is the nature of terrorism.
If you have a better idea, I think we’d all love to hear it.
I hope one day you receive the deprogramming treatment you need and become a better human.
How stupid you are, Clemmie!
I agree Clementine. Israelis are colonists, they have seized someone else's land by force of arms, in much the same way that many European Powers siezed other countries, displaced the people and stole their land. In fact the US was founded in this manner, but it doesn't make it right. In fact Australia too was founded in this way, justified in law by the legal fiction of 'Terra nullius ', ie that it was nobody's land, or empty land.
And where is that?
personal insults vs facts
South africa are taking us to ICJ and still in denial
Please do yourself a favour and read a book so that you can stop starting the story of this conflict with the atrocities of the 7th of October. Hamas didn’t just wake up one morning and decided that they’d like to commit war crimes just for fun.
https://www.amazon.com.au/Israel-Palestine-Avi-Shlaim/dp/1844676560?nodl=1&dplnkId=aa323078-eb58-4a44-9bf7-4a96c7a83ddf
Or this one:
https://www.amazon.com.au/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553?nodl=1&dplnkId=6e40d447-5475-49f5-a1b5-d461d4973de7
Or watch this - it is a balanced interview by an Israeli professor of genocide, Omer Bartov from a couple of days ago
https://youtu.be/T8qGubNO_c0?si=QPpwxwompUTWdYAc
Or Shlomo Yitzchak, an American settler on the west bank that had his eyes opened
https://youtu.be/P-isvgX7OvA?si=5c-oXq5aQU4JOsTM
These are ALL the standard issue ADL talking points disseminated to their database to try and make a simple proposition complicated.
I’d much rather listen to Norman Finkelstein, a leading Political Scientist with 4 decades of experience in this field. Not that it should matter, but just so that I can head off your predictable cries of bias and antisemitism, his parents are holocaust survivors. All other family members on either side were murdered by the Nazis.
Here he is, being interviewed on your poster boy, Ben Shapiro’s platform, by Candace Owens, less than 24 hours ago.
If nothing else, just watch the first 5 minutes. Shame on you.
https://youtu.be/te1y7ahp2LQ?si=TiAuaPRne5xGl4C2
none of this justifies genocide
there is never an excuse for genocide
never again meant never again for everyone
Do you believe no war is just, then? We should have just let the Nazis take over the world? Because children die in all wars. All the more when they aren’t evacuated so they can be used as shields by terrorists.
If you are concerned about babies and not just Palastinian babies, surely you must be protesting for the release of babies and children held by Hamas. And you must realize that it is problematic to take the side of those who put babies in ovens and set them on fire in front of their parents on Oct 7.
I will not ever agree that children are a morally defensible collateral damage in violence, war or genocide (which is what this is). The fact you can morally justify it in your mind disgusts me. The stories about babies being put in ovens is unproven (and disgraceful, given its graphic horror) propaganda. Do you know who did put a child into an oven though? A Zionist militia, in the massacre of the Palestinian village of Tantura.
Of course I want the hostages released safely, and to be returned to their families *especially* the children. How do you think carpet bombing the area where they’re being held is protecting them?
Honestly, you need to go away and reflect deeply on your disregard for Palestinian lives. And history.
The British Empire took over half the world, and other European countries took over most of the remainder. Russia and China though resisted successfully!
Russia and China are empires
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/28/world/middleeast/oct-7-attacks-hamas-israel-sexual-violence.html?unlocked_article_code=1.JU0.2cWO.458aYjf8spJt&smid=url-share
What a stupid one sided simplification of history. Stick to what you think you know and stay out of foreign affairs.
Thank you Clementine, this is a great speech which also educated me even more about the issue.
I was at the rally in Adelaide the other weekend, great to see so many people there standing up for the human rights of Palestinian people.
The Israeli Government is an elected government of a country and should be held accountable to the international laws it has broken. As we would expect from another country.
I one hundred percent support your post., every word of it. There is so much silence, double talk, denial and lies in fact, out there. Not only in regard to Palestine, but also First Nations P,eople, the homeless, and other disadvantaged groups.
Why the fuck am I meant to give two shits about Jews and Muslims unaliving each other?
Sure there are details with every historical event, but the basic truth is that people pushed themselves into the borders- and even literal HOMES- of people who were already living there. Doesn't get much more black and white than that.
Well written. I just don’t understand how the “antisemite” card can be dropped on you so blatantly, and why this vicious idiot at the AJA goes after anyone with a pulse (audience) who dares criticise Israel. FFS. I just hope people are waking up to this blatant BS - https://www.facebook.com/share/p/YadQnz96vnNBJfjD/?mibextid=WC7FNe
I think Caitlin Johnstone puts the current South African action in the ICJ eloquently - https://twitter.com/caitoz/status/1740860137991204994
Verbose:
South Africa has launched a case at the UN's international court of justice accusing Israel of genocide. Israel has responded by (deep sigh) accusing South Africa of "blood libel".
Blood libel, for those who don't know, refers to the way medieval Europeans would falsely accuse Jews of murdering Christians in blood sacrifices in order to justify persecuting them. Which is to say, Israel has responded to South Africa's accusations by accusing South Africa of anti-semitism.
False accusations of anti-semitism are all Israel and its defenders have left. It's the only tool left in their toolbox. Once you've exhausted the "But Hamas!" and "But October 7!" excuses they make for Israel's deliberate butchery of civilians via airstrikes and siege warfare, false accusations of hating Jews is all that remains.
And it's so sick, because it exploits a healthy impulse in those of us who oppose racism and genocide, and does so *in order to defend racist acts of genocide*. It causes people who care deeply about human rights to take a step back and say "Hold on, am I guilty of embodying the same hateful prejudices which led to the Holocaust?" and shuts us down and shuts us up, even as Israel rolls out its own holocaust against Palestinians.
It exploits a noble, healthy inclination we cultivate in ourselves in good faith in order to support the horrific genocidal nightmare in Gaza in entirely bad faith. It exploits our good nature to advance a profoundly evil cause. It's despicable. It's depraved.
But fewer and fewer people are buying it. There's only so many times the boy can falsely cry wolf before the villagers stop running to his defense. Hopefully this desensitization that Israel and its apologists have created doesn't have dark consequences in the future. It's just one more ugly thing they have birthed into the world that the rest of us will have to bring consciousness to.
Predictably a) Obfuscating the whole Jewish faith with pro-Israeli State Policy - for false accusations of antisemitism and b) Obfuscating a genuine concern for human rights and indiscriminate murder with "pro-Hamas". I DEPLORE 7 Oct as I do Israel's current actions, and continued murder is not going to destroy Hamas. Show some humanity.
https://sleekitscotsman.substack.com/i/139421453/pro-palestine-is-pro-human-rights-and-international-law-not-pro-hamas
South Africa - let's agree to differ - noting ANY other country could refer Israel to the ICJ for genocide based on multiple opinions.
The actual point of Catilin's post is false accusations of antisemitism. So remove the first two lines of her statement to keep yourself happy, and you're left with Israel's response to anyone who would have raised that claim or others similar - patently untrue.
Other point you haven't addressed - you continue to conflate those who call for a humanitarian ceasefire with "Hamas Supporters".
So in addition to pro-Palestinian HUMAN rights supporters (as I've said above NOT Pro-Hamas) I suppose that 153 countries of the United Nations voting for a Ceasefire v 10 voting against (including Israel, US) are Hamas supporters completely wrong? Including 30 countries who switched their previous abstention to a Yes Ceasefire vote on 12 Dec.
https://sleekitscotsman.substack.com/i/139421453/dec-un-security-council-resolution-humanitarian-access-at-scale
But of course rubbishing and discrediting the UN is official Israeli Government policy, taken up locally here by pro-Israeli lobby groups as per my other thread.
Let's use common sense then re. the UN (parking from a moment your assertion that of the 194 countries "a vast majority" are run by dictators... ): 153 countries - voting YES for a ceasefire are they all wrong Hamas-supporting dictatorships? (noting only 98 of them would have needed to vote YES to pass the resolution - so let's assume 98 aren't Hamas supporting dictatorships for a minute).
Forgetting the semantics of condemning people by name (which by the way I agree should be done), an actual ceasefire to stop the killing is more important than offending someone.
Likud’s 1977 founding document reveals its position that:
… between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
Of course, this was written in 1977 – but critics of Hamas don’t afford it this concession vis-a-vis its 1988 charter. While this Likud statement doesn’t possess the racist sentiments of the Hamas charter, the practical implications denying the possibility of two states co-existing are more or less the same.
Lest we think that the Likud’s 1977 position is anachronistic, its 1999 electoral platform reiterates that:
The Jordan river will be the permanent eastern border of the State of Israel.
Jerusalem is the eternal, united capital of the State of Israel and only of Israel. The government will flatly reject Palestinian proposals to divide Jerusalem.
The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river.
This platform has never been rescinded. Current Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu was also exposed in a 2001 video bragging that he “stopped the Oslo Accords” after receiving US guarantees that Israel would not be required to withdraw from “specified military locations” – chosen by himself, including the whole of the Jordan Valley/eastern border of the West Bank – in exchange for signing the 1997 Hebron Agreement.
https://theconversation.com/israels-policy-on-statehood-merits-the-same-scrutiny-as-hamas-gets-33897
This is so powerful, Clementine, thank you for sharing this transcription.
Thank you for this. Unfortunately these facts rarely get reported in mainstream media.
I was wondering if you have had much backlash for the stance you’ve taken?
I have a special place in my heart for the people of Gaza, who are under this terrible onslaught of Terror.
Predictably categorising any support of the Palestinian position as "hate speech" vs. what it actually is - pro-humanity. October 7th was appalling. As is Israel's actions from 7th onwards, and prior to 7th over decades.
The right to protest human rights in a country other than Israel whose Government is supporting this is not a "monstrous disease" - it's a human necessity. Ridiculous rhetoric.
https://sleekitscotsman.substack.com/i/139421453/pro-palestine-is-pro-human-rights-and-international-law-not-pro-hamas
Your statement is as if no mistreatment or unfairness (documented by multiple independent agencies) happened prior to October 7th (which I agree was horrific and illegal and those participating need to be tried by the ICC - as do key members of the Israeli Government and military).
Thank you Clem
Hi Clementine, I ve emailed you twice and am still not added to the bedties content on Instagram. I'm ruthjadruc I also didn't receive tha hat and gift packs that were going our in August.
Hi there - are you sure that’s your Insta name? I can’t find anything with that!
Oops. Wrong glasses on, too old for this small phone print. It's ruthjadric